If Only the Majority Had Rights...
Yahoo News has some interesting statistics in this article about the ID vs. Evolution controversy.
According to a November national Gallup poll, "only about a third of Americans believe that Charles Darwin's theory of evolution is a scientific theory that has been well supported by the evidence, while just as many say that it is just one of many theories and has not been supported by the evidence." The rest said they didn't know.So obviously, we know what the majority wants. Currently, a philosophical idea (Darwinism) is being taught as fact in science classes across the nation. This philosophy is not supported by the majority OR scientific evidence (circumstantial evidence has yet to prove this case), and yet it is being taught as an unquestionable fact. This is being done in the name of Separation of Church and State (another fictional idea).
A CBS News poll taken the same month found that two-thirds of Americans want creationism taught with evolution. It also indicated that 55 percent of Americans believe God created humans in their present form and only 13 percent think that humans evolved without divine guidance.
So rather than teach according to the views of the majority, schools must appease the 13 percent who directly oppose the majority. Does this seem rather undemocratic to anyone else?
posted by jacob.thrasher @ 5/23/2005 08:55:00 AM
27 comments
27 Comments:COMMENT POLICY
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Oh - they're going to come yelling and screaming at you about this one!
What I have NEVER understood is this: Why is Darwin's theory taught as fact? Why is it a mortal sin to point out the weaknesses in the theory?
In the interest of Science we need to teach the kiddies the whole story. Darwin himself was not shy about pointing out the problems with it.
Is it true? No removal of the filibuster? Yay! everybody's happy.
Well the majority of people in this country wanted slavery to be legal at one time, that doesn't mean they were right. The majority in this country didn't want women to vote, work or be paid fairly at one time either. Were they right just because they were in the majority?
Creationism and ID has no evidence, and no one believes that there is. We have discussed this and you were unable to come up with one point supported by science, or that I(not a scientist) couldn't shoot down without even having to research anything. So are you saying that we should quit teaching something that has about 90% of it's theory explained for something that has 0%?
Man created God in his own image, not the other way around.
"Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in. It fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well. It must have been made to have me in it!" - -Douglas Adams
"To explain the origin of the DNA/protein machine by invoking a supernatural Designer is to explain precisely nothing, for it leaves unexplained the origin of the Designer. You have to say something like 'God was always there', and if you allow yourself that kind of lazy way out, you might as well just say 'DNA was always there', or "Life was always there', and be done with it."
- Richard Dawkins,
So if something had to create the world, you know since it's so perfect and everything seems to be made for each other, then who made this even more perfect being who created the world? Your own logic disproves itself. If God, a perfect being can just exist one day, then why couldn't a big clump of mass just exist one day and then later explode to form the universe?
How is that any more ridiculous than your God theory?
Amen, Neo!
In response to Toad,
How can you draw a paralel from slavery to Intelligent Design? If you want the Theory of Evolution to be taught in schools, contrary to the will of the majority, wouldn't you be cramming your ideas down other people's throats?
So if something had to create the world, you know since it's so perfect and everything seems to be made for each other, then who made this even more perfect being who created the world? Your own logic disproves itself. If God, a perfect being can just exist one day, then why couldn't a big clump of mass just exist one day and then later explode to form the universe?
What you aren't taking into consideration is that a 'clump of mass' has no transcendent quality to it. God on the other hand is outside of the sphere of mere human understanding. Also, what would make this 'clump of matter' explode to form a universe? It would have to have some help from something. If the theory of evolution is true, there would be no other being or thing that would initiate the 'big bang'.
"The fool says in his heart, 'there is no God'"
--Psalm 14:1
Man created God in his own image, not the other way around.
OK, how do you define "God"? If you're talking about the god of some religion other than Christianity, the word "God" means something entirely different from what I think it means.
Well the majority of people in this country wanted slavery to be legal at one time, that doesn't mean they were right. The majority in this country didn't want women to vote, work or be paid fairly at one time either. Were they right just because they were in the majority?
I don't think Neo said anything about whether it was right. All he said was that the majority's opinion on the origin of life should be taught in schools.
Creationism and ID has no evidence, and no one believes that there is. We have discussed this and you were unable to come up with one point supported by science, or that I(not a scientist) couldn't shoot down without even having to research anything. So are you saying that we should quit teaching something that has about 90% of it's theory explained for something that has 0%?
Here's some evidence for God and creation:
1. The Big Bang (something or someone had to cause it)
2. DNA (someone had to design it)
3. Evil in the world (the world would be totally immoral if there weren't an absolute standard of good to measure evil against)
4. The Bible (it is internally consistent and accurate in what it says about history)
Toad:
If evolution happened, why aren't there lots of transitional forms in the fossil record?
Thank you for bringing up the fossil record Gabriel. The fossil record actually supports sudden emergence of life forms. No evolution.
One of the problems with the Theory of Evolution - as Darwin readily admits himself.
No, there is plenty of fossil evidence, ever hear of Lucy? What there isn't fossil evidence of is Man living since the beginning of time.
Modern man didn't surface until about 100,000 years ago. Ours and modern apes ancestors existed before that dating back roughly 5 million years.
If evolution, even microevolution and natural selection is a myth, how do you explain tall skinny black people in Africa, short Asians in Asia, big blond people in Sweden, or the fact that I was only born with 3 wisdom teeth and not 4, and what purpose does an appendix serve, and why do Humans (beings who walk upright) get Hemorrhoids?
Do the research and get back to me, meanwhile go to my site, you have inspired me to write a new post.
What made the mass explode?
A. Gravity
B. Inertia
C. Not God
Your argument for there always being a God is the same argument for the big bang.
Life is not that difficult to create. Ever leave bread or pizza out for a couple of days? Well try that and you will see life where there was none a few days prior.
"God being outside the realm of human understanding" is a cop out.
Why are you trying to make me explain evolution when you can't explain the origin of God?
Maybe evolution is just outside the realm of your understanding.
I don't believe that there is evidence that humans lived since the beginning of the world.
I believe (as does every Christian I know) that microevolution and natural selection (to a certain extent) happens. It would be ridiculous to deny it.
I was not asking you to explain how the Big Bang exploded; I was asking you where the stuff that the Big Bang was made up of came from. Do you believe that it sprang into existence out of nothingness?
If you believe in spontaneous generation, why don't you believe that all the animals in the fossil record just grew out of the ground in the correct places for it to look like evolution happened?
I believe that God needs no creator because it is impossible for there to be any being greater than He is (because God has infinite knowledge).
Besides, you couldn't have an infinite number of finite things, which is what you would need if you said that God wasn't infinite.
The real issue seems to be that some of mankind is simply too prideful to admit that there are things too wonderfull for us to comprehend in this realm.
Kinda reminds me of a certain angel....
Well, Gabriel, I could just as easily ask you where God came from? Did he spring into existence out of nothingness?
It's all fairly complicated, and though I don't pretend to understand theoritical physics to any degree, I have heard that current theories say that there doesn't have to be anything before the Big Bang, no time, no space, no anything. Either that or it's possibly the remains of the last universe crunching down to infinitestimal size.
But proposing a "God" that starts things off just puts the question back one step. Instead of "Where did the universe come from?" it's "Where did God come from?". And it doesn't really help, since their is no evidence or even plausible theories to prove God's existence.
Well, Gabriel, I could just as easily ask you where God came from? Did he spring into existence out of nothingness?
But God is infinite in all his qualities, so obviously He is infinite in his age.
But God is infinite in all his qualities, so obviously He is infinite in his age.
That argument is just so astoundingly logical and rational I think I'll head off for church right this instant!!!!!!
In any case, if you can believe that theory, why can't you accept the concept that, perhaps, the universe is the remains of the last universe crunching down to a speck then bursting up again, and so on ad infinitum? Mind you, I'm not saying that's what I believe, I don't have a firm belief because I don't have the knowledge in theoretical physics.
I don't believe in the Big Bang and Big Crunch theory because it couldn't go on forever, and if it did, it would go on forever and never get here. You can't count to infinity.
Toad734 said...
Life is not that difficult to create. Ever leave bread or pizza out for a couple of days? Well try that and you will see life where there was none a few days prior.
Soooo...your back to the middle ages! lol Remember Louis Pasteur from science class? He was a french scientist. Spontaneous Generation was thought to be the Origin of Life until the late 1850's. It wasn't until 1859 that Louis disproved this fallacy. To refresh your memory, the French Academy of Science sponsored a Science Fair, the goal of which was to prove or disprove Spontaneous Generation. Young Pasteur's award winning experiment was a clever variation of earlier experiments performed by John Needham (1713-1781) and Lazzaro Spallanzani (1729-1799). Pasteur filled a long necked flask with meat broth. He then heated the glass neck and bent it into an "S" shape. Air could reach the broth, but gravity acted to trap airborne microorganisms in the curve of the neck. He then boiled the broth. After a time, no microorganisms had formed in the broth. When the flask was tipped so that the broth reached the microorganisms trapped in the neck, the broth quickly became cloudy with microscopic life. Thus, Pasteur disproved Spontaneous Generation. So any reference to spontaneous generation sets your argument back quite a ways.
N@te -
In reference to: "The fool says in his heart, 'there is no God.'" Who gets to define what God is? Even more importanly, who wrote that psalm? What are the teachings behind it? How is a person who does not believe in god a fool?
Polanco Consulting--
If I'm not mistaken, from a Buddhist standpoint, there are many different gods. From a Judeo-Christian standpoint however, God is a singular entity who had deep interest in his creation. That verse is taken from the Bible in Psalms and was written by King David. He was communicating the absolute foolishness that is expressed when mortal man shakes his fist at an almighty God and denies the very existence of the one who made the universe.
why couldn't a big clump of mass just exist one day and then later explode to form the universe?
So is that what you say really happened?
You must get this concept: THE GOD WE BELIEVE EXISTS IS SUPERNATURAL! That means that he is not bound by the laws of nature, so he doesn't need a beginning.
No, there is plenty of fossil evidence, ever hear of Lucy?
The knee bone that supposedly proved that Lucy walked upright was taken from a different strata layer several kilometers away. Lucy was a ape, not an ape-woman!
If evolution, even microevolution and natural selection is a myth,
We don't believe that microevolution/natural selection is a myth. Microevolution is the loss of certain portions of the genome resulting in a change of appearance. Macroevolution is the hypothetical addition of information to the genome. Diametrical opposites.
How do you explain tall skinny black people in Africa, short Asians in Asia, big blond people in Sweden,
In Africa, the white people all died of skin cancer because they had more "subtract melanin" genes than they had "add melanin" genes. Thus, they couldn't pass on the "subtract melanin" genes and the only thing we see today is "lotsa melanin" genes.
And what purpose does an appendix serve,
The appendix serves as extra protection for the digestive system of the foetus.
And why do Humans (beings who walk upright) get Hemorrhoids?
I'm sorry, please explain what and how you are using the term Hemmorrhoids.
Life is not that difficult to create. Ever leave bread or pizza out for a couple of days? Well try that and you will see life where there was none a few days prior.
The mold that grew on the pizza came from spores in the air that floated onto it and fed on it, silly! Sterilize the pizza with gamma rays and put in in a sterile container. Presto! No life! Pasteur showed that life only comes from life many years ago. Abiogenesis is IMPOSSIBLE!
You are mistaken. From a true Buddhist standpoint, there is no god. Why is a person who does not believe in god a fool? Remember, I don't believe that the Bible is a credible source, so you'll need to argue your point without it.
Why is a person who does not believe in god a fool? Remember, I don't believe that the Bible is a credible source, so you'll need to argue your point without it.
The verse in Psalms notes that all men know that there is a God 'way deep down, so they are foolish to deny it.
Today, anyone who closes his mind to the evidence for God is a fool. Therefore, all atheists are fools, in that sense of the word, because they are closed to the possibility of a God. It's fine to be an agnostic, though: "I don't know if there is a God," until you see undeniable evidence for Him. Then you have to change to the other agnostic position: "There is a God, but we can't know anything about Him other than His characteristics of supreme power and supernaturality."
David,
Why are they fools? Give me some logical reasons, not just, because there is obviously a god. There is not obvioulsy a god. If there was, everyone would know it. I fi don't believe in god, what makes me stupid? Use something other than the Bible, as I don't believe it is a valid resource.
I sure can. Anything thsat harms another person is wrong. Many people believe this without believing in god. Laws are quite clear on this an do not mention god.
"Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in. It fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well. It must have been made to have me in it!" - -Douglas Adams
Stoopid...how about a story about minimizing probability....
Once upon a time in WWII an Allied spy was captured by the Nazis and he was to be shot to death by a firing squad of Nazi sharp shooters. So they put him against a wall, aimed their guns and fired. Yet not a single bullet hit the airman and instead the bullets formed an outline on the wall. The airman looked at the outline on the wall and said, "Wow...what are the chances?! Well, whatever the chances are it is obvious that I hit the particular lottery that favors my life. Because....I'm here, and that's the only way I can see the outline on the wall. If I was shot, then I wouldn't be here to see that I hit the lottery. Chance be praised!"
But actually, all the sharp shooters were spies themselves working from within the Nazi army who had gotten themselves assigned to this specific firing squad specifically to save the life of the airman. So they just looked at the airman until he said, "Oh, righto, thanks fellas..." Then he was thankful that circumstances had been shaped to favor his life, as he should have been all along.
Probability...
Thomas Jefferon's answer to that inversion.
" I fi don't believe in god, what makes me stupid?"
Low IQ, I suppose...the lack of a rationale for rationality wouldn't help either.
I would note that there is no "stupidity" sans admitting to the infinite Intelligence that created the Cosmos. One man's stupidity is another's intelligence, all within the random events of the biochemical state of their brain at the moment, etc...
David,
Why are they fools? Give me some logical reasons, not just, because there is obviously a god. There is not obvioulsy a god. If there was, everyone would know it. I fi don't believe in god, what makes me stupid? Use something other than the Bible, as I don't believe it is a valid resource.
I'm afraid that you misunderstood the quote.
"The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God.'
You didn't say "There IS no God." That would be denying the possibility of any supernatural being. Since there is no way to prove that there isn't a supernatural being, it is perposterous to say that there is NO God whatsoever. That would be foolish.
You said that you "didn't believe in a god". This means that you accept the possibility of a supernatural being, but you have not seen enough evidence to warrant belief in it. That is not foolish; that is being logical.
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